Richard Oliver

Joined

• started 13 topics
• posted 830 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Richard Oliver

• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Lostandfound stated this:

  congregation cessation was an impossible concept, the only one use was if a new and better facility was needed locally either by this congregation or in partnership with an immwdiate neighbour. In his day and his fathers and indeed his fathers, local ecclesias stood alone and had to be defended at all costs by locals, with no help from Mill Hill, in retrospect MHs only help was directing the builders to a roof component supplier, an asbestos roof that was a nightmare to replace.Back then so few KHs existed that the concept of building one to merely sell to provide funds for WT was laughable. The congregation understood that the land and the building were owned by the Zzzz congregation of Jehovah's witnesses, and always would be in this system.

  So the statement was that it should always be owned by that congregation. What if that congregation no longer needed to exist. The posters own statement says that, that no matter what a congregation would not have stopped owning that property.
  
  
• 
  27

  More congregations? One of the strategies they used to inflate the numbers in my city.

  by Tempest in a Teacup in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.

  it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.

  comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Dreamerdude, can you give the examples of the two foreign languages and the general area in which they are?
• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Outlaw. I am trying to understand where you are coming from. Do you say that I am an idiot because I can see demographics of a community may change that would require a downsize of congregations in a community? Or do you just again feel that kingdom halls should never be sold?
• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  So Outlaw, you feel that a kingdom hall should never be sold ever. Even if the demographics of a community has changed so much due to economic or social events that negate having a kingdom hall there. Lets say in any number of US cities where economic pressures has decimated a city and has seen it's population dwindle dramatically. Some examples are Cleveland Ohio, where the cities population has decreased by half a million people, Buffalo, NY by 300k people. Obviously some of those people who left were JWs, and so a kingdom hall may not be needed because people are just moving out of the community. No Kingdom Hall should ever be sold?
• 
  9

  Paedophiliac

  by midnight in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i don't think jehovah likes paedophiliac behaviour .

  has anyone got a reference to an article anywhere that shows watchtower giving council that paedophiliac thoughts , feelings , leanings are wrong ?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  I was referencing Iown Mylife, where they automatically called them criminals. It is disgusting thoughts but they don't become criminals till they put in motion a plan to abuse a child sexually.
• 
  9

  Paedophiliac

  by midnight in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i don't think jehovah likes paedophiliac behaviour .

  has anyone got a reference to an article anywhere that shows watchtower giving council that paedophiliac thoughts , feelings , leanings are wrong ?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  You do understand that someone who has an attraction to a child (someone who has paedophiliac tendencies) does not necessarily mean that they have committed any crime. By definition it is someone who is attracted to a child, the definition isn't that someone has committed a sex act with a child. There are plenty of productive members of society who are by definition sociopaths or psychopaths, and may have a tendency to harm others but don't act upon those desires. Even the law recognizes the difference, in most western nations, police cannot arrest someone for their thoughts or even if they verbally describe something that they wish they could do, but does not put in a plan into motion to commit the act or has committed the act.
• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  So let me get this right, and correct me if I am wrong. Lets say that Watchtower says that the kingdom hall at location X is no longer needed and that it should be sold. But that Watchtower says that the congregation members can decide what to do with the proceeds and the majority of the members decide to send the proceeds to Watchtower, you would have no problem with that right?
• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  And here is another question. Lets say that Orphan Crow you and Outlaw are in the same congregation, and Outlaw has controlling interest of shares in the kingdom hall. And then lets say that he all of sudden hats Orphan Crow and says to everyone, you all either, you either Disfellowship him today and stop associating with him completely or I am going to sell the Kingdom Hall, because I don't like him. Would you think that is a good idea?
• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Orphan Crow:

  Please give me your suggestions to what those bylaws should be.

  How are shares to be determined?

  What happens if someone moves?

  Can someone sell their shares to someone else?

  What happens if someone dies?

  There are a ton of fine points that would make it impossible. Then all that happens is that instead of Watchtower using a religion for a business you have individual people who use a religion as a business. Can you have rich witnesses just buy up shares of multiple kingdom halls, and then when the market hits a peak they cash out and shut down a kingdom hall at their own will.
• 
  39

  ...It Belongs to the Society

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

  my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

  my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  So outlaw my questions still stand. How do you decide who gets to decide, the people who are currently in the congregation or the people who were it when they built it? How do you decide, how much weight a person's vote counts to making that decision? Is it that the congregation should know how much each person gave to building it and then what, every dollar equals one share? So if one guy who gave 25,000 dollars decides to sell it and he has most of the shares it pretty much belongs to him right. Again if someone moves away should the congregation pay that person back? The way you make it sound like is so easy but these are just a small fraction of the complicated questions you would have to answer.